tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3847211149012008703.post4246508860253495276..comments2023-11-03T04:50:42.128-05:00Comments on Confessional Gadfly: Is your Title disposable?Rev. Eric J Brownhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17747919365522145094noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3847211149012008703.post-20569309352890387562010-06-11T16:31:29.957-05:002010-06-11T16:31:29.957-05:00Dear Carl:
Nice try.
Luther was addressed as &qu...Dear Carl:<br /><br />Nice try.<br /><br />Luther was addressed as "Reverend Father" right up until the day he died. Lutherans all over the world have made, and continue to make use of, the title. It is petty and provincial to judge Lutheranism by the quirks and irregularities of the way we Americans practice it.<br /><br />The Lord is not prohibiting the terms "Father" and "Rabbi" in and of themselves - but rather calling it a sin to be enamored of the terms and the authority and respect accorded fathers and teachers.<br /><br />The same is true of generals, admirals, presidents, doctors, lawyers, Indian chiefs, fathers of the family, lay elders, school crossing guards, and airline pilots. <br /><br />Jesus is not condemning authority. Jesus is no democrat or anticleric. He established a hierarchical universe and he established the pastoral office - and he does commend people to respect their fathers, teachers, and pastors - even as Luther speaks of pastors as "spiritual fathers" in the LC. <br /><br />Our Lord is warning all people under authority not to see that authority as self-originating nor to think too highly of themselves.<br /><br />And I do hope you have a happy Father's Day!Rev. Larry Beanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06705910892752648940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3847211149012008703.post-44230777649298163412010-06-11T13:31:06.637-05:002010-06-11T13:31:06.637-05:00If the Lord means this literally, then *we* are fo...<i>If the Lord means this literally, then *we* are forbidden to use the address "Father" under any circumstances, whether for our own dads, or for the local Roman Catholic pastor.</i><br /><br />This is as silly as claiming that Mt 26:28 is a reference to all wine produced from then on, or that the context of Mt. 23:9 is the same context as Mt. 5:29-30. In the Scriptural context of v.9, our Lord's command to "call no man father" refers to honorific title not to be used for the disciples he was with as well as other religious leaders of his Christian followers, and by implication to people in the Church today. In v. 9, our Lord is not referring to such strawmen as biological or adoptive fathers, Abraham (as the father of the progeny promised by God), George Washington (as the father of our country), a baseball team, and the like. <br /><br />As for his SA reference to Martin Luther, Brixus Northanus, who refers to himself as "Minister", not "Father Northanus," we should be thankful that he didn't accidentally misspell Luther's name or else there would be pressure to misspell it today to maintain our confessional orthodoxy. ;-)<br /><br /><i>Jesus also says we are not "to be called teacher."</i><br /><br />Regarding the title our Lord prohibits in v.10, the Greek word (kathegetes) used in Jesus' statements in Mt. 23 is not the Greek word (didaskalos) for teacher used elsewhere in the New Testament. Apples and oranges!Carl Vehsehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00348831096001668813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3847211149012008703.post-16547009474118225342010-06-10T21:03:30.948-05:002010-06-10T21:03:30.948-05:00Father Hollywood is going to become Father Origen?...Father Hollywood is going to become Father Origen?Rev. Eric J Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17747919365522145094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3847211149012008703.post-70210710845219080572010-06-10T16:16:41.241-05:002010-06-10T16:16:41.241-05:00And notice that the Lord doesn't say "all...And notice that the Lord doesn't say "allow no-one to call you father..." but rather "call no man father..."<br /><br />If the Lord means this literally, then *we* are forbidden to use the address "Father" under any circumstances, whether for our own dads, or for the local Roman Catholic pastor. <br /><br />Jesus also says we are not "to be called teacher." So that means "Rabbi" for the local Jewish preacher is out the door, as well as "Doctor" for the college prof or the pastor who has a Ph.D. And what in the world do we Lutherans do with our "called teachers"? My goodness!<br /><br />Moreover, maybe Matt 5:29-30 means we should be mutilating ourselves - unless Jesus was using hyperbole to make a point about attitudes. Hmmm.<br /><br />I think Father Doctor Martin Luther understood the Bible pretty well. ;-)Rev. Larry Beanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06705910892752648940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3847211149012008703.post-74585893731534750702010-06-10T15:33:17.276-05:002010-06-10T15:33:17.276-05:00Carl,
And the next time you hear the little kids ...Carl,<br /><br />And the next time you hear the little kids singing "Father Abraham" just backhand them across the room! And if you run into a brit at Christmas time, deck him and say, "It's Santa Claus, not Father Christmas, you rotten limey!"<br /><br />Of course, that is why I prefer Padre. . . and they are a baseball team too!Rev. Eric J Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17747919365522145094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3847211149012008703.post-3906309460741913432010-06-10T14:15:52.140-05:002010-06-10T14:15:52.140-05:00Dear Carl:
Absolutely! And don't forget Acts...Dear Carl:<br /><br />Absolutely! And don't forget <a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+7:2&version=ESV" rel="nofollow">Acts 7:2</a> or <a href="http://old.bookofconcord.org/smalcald.html" rel="nofollow">SA III:XV:27</a> either!Rev. Larry Beanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06705910892752648940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3847211149012008703.post-64955155775308644872010-06-10T14:04:54.937-05:002010-06-10T14:04:54.937-05:00When giving yourself the title "Father" ...When giving yourself the title "Father" on your church business cards, church newsletters, church bulletin board, and in your Lutheran blog signature, don't forget the scriptural reference, "<a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2023:9&version=ASV" rel="nofollow">Mt. 23:8</a>" underneath.Carl Vehsehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00348831096001668813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3847211149012008703.post-83360139869743322572010-06-10T06:40:23.918-05:002010-06-10T06:40:23.918-05:00Well, the thing that makes me worried about "...Well, the thing that makes me worried about "Father" is before you were "Father Hollywood" you had black hair. . . now look at it O.o!!!Rev. Eric J Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17747919365522145094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3847211149012008703.post-65402762009066918832010-06-09T22:15:44.142-05:002010-06-09T22:15:44.142-05:00Another nice thing about "Father" is tha...Another nice thing about "Father" is that it is a confession against women's "ordination." You can have a "Pastor (sic) Karen" but not a "Father Karen." The latter reveals the ridiculous incongruity of female "pastors." Sex is an ontological, not a functional, characteristic.<br /><br />Nor do Episcopal priestesses want to be called "Mother." There is an intuitive understanding that "mothers" and "fathers" are not interchangeable.<br /><br />The Society of the Holy Trinity, for example, does not use the term "father confessor" as they count "ordained" women as members. Instead, they have gender-neutralized the term to the bland and bloodless bureaucratic-sounding "confessor."<br /><br />In New Orleans, I'm addressed in all sorts of ways as well, though usually as "Fawdah" or "Pyastuh."Rev. Larry Beanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06705910892752648940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3847211149012008703.post-58793007591612331442010-06-09T14:39:35.929-05:002010-06-09T14:39:35.929-05:00Beautiful. I never correct one who uses that titl...Beautiful. I never correct one who uses that title, but like you, I'm used to be called "Pastor." To me that will always be the preferred title (and it's intimate in its own way), and yet you are quite sound in noting the permanency. I might add one more dimension: it would follow then that the parishioners are (as they are indeed in German) Pfarrkinder. It suggests the entire familial way of relating is the normal one for the Church.William Weedonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01383850332591975790noreply@blogger.com